Marcan, one of the members of Team Twiizers has discovered if a device present in the GameCube memory card port identifies itself with an unique ID that it will turn the Wii into recovery mode therefor allowing a user to run a recovery disc or even their own code.
I've talked with Marcan and he's being very closed about the device and would not go into detail about it's purpose, other then the fact that it lets you fix certain very specific cases of bricking. He wouldn't reveal any other details and I was told to wait until it's officially announced.
Update: Controversy aside, Marcan has posted some more in depth information on what this dongle might officially fix.
Quote:
Some specifics on what kinds of bricks this might fix (we have not tested all of these yet):
- If you can autoboot ANY disc and your problem is not a bad system menu (that is, reinstalling the system menu won’t fix it) then this probably won’t help. If your problem can be fixed (which it probably can), you won’t need this at all.
- This SHOULD let you fix the worst banner bricks (where you screw up the main arc and get a freeze on the warning screen, not after it), but ONLY if you have 3.2 or earlier, or 3.3 and the Twilight Hack (beta1) already installed, and in both cases you’ll need a modchip.
- This SHOULD let you fix any semibricks-turned-bricks (Opera 404 error on boot) but you’ll have to wait until a retail game comes out with a newer version if you don’t have a modchip or if you have 3.3 or newer.
- In general, IF you can see anything on the screen, AND you have a system menu earlier than 3.3, AND your system menu main binary (dol) and IOS are (mostly) fine (system menu data corruption is okay), AND you have a modchip, AND your hardware is fine, THEN you can probably fix it with this.
That. Is. Stunning. I'm still hoping the Wii scene doesn't become like the PSP scene, however this is something amazing. Possibilities could be endless, serious congrats to marcan.
READ IT.
Brakken, ya might want to put that link in the first post
I've already read it. It was posted after I made my initial post. I first tried to contact marcan about the device and he ignored me. He only responded after I made my post. He pointed out inaccuracies and I updated the post accordingly. My initial source was mistaken about it's purpose therefor leading me to post what he calls "rampant speculation and nonsense". Although, go read the replies in the YouTube video link. He contradicts himself. I'm not going to touch the issue anymore. I'll leave it "as is".
Well, you have read it and you removed the pandora battery referance, but thats not what i meant.
I think you should include This link into This post, so that those people that read the first post don't get their hopes up for nothing.
Also, i don't think this should be digged, its not a big thing, and won't fix most bricks.
Also, this is what marcan said in the YT comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youtube Comments
soplox2: wow, is something like psp recovery mode?
marcan42: Sort of, but less powerful. It won't help if more important parts of the Wii system are corrupt.
Last edited by azeazezar; 09-04-2008 at 09:40 AM..
Well, you have read it and you removed the pandora battery referance, but thats not what i meant.
I think you should include This link into This post, so that those people that read the first post don't get their hopes up for nothing.
Also, i don't think this should be digged, its not a big thing, and won't fix most bricks.
As the device can boot code from the GC port on boot who knows what the future might hold. Marcan has his own ideas on what the device will and will not do - who is to say, if it's released to the public, that marcan can control what others do with the device?
the Wii basically runs an EXI device check command 0x0000 and the device responds back with its 4 byte ID, for example 0x00000004 if was an official 59 block memory card.
There is no other transmission on the memory card port on boot up, so a spoofed ID of the official adapter for the 32 bits of the clock is all you would need. 0x07020000 or whatever it is.
Documents say the ID must be read at 8Mhz but I logged it at 2Mhz. Very slow anyway, so could be patched with anything that can clock 16 bits then bit bang 32 back.
I am a "floater" on all of the scene websites. I do not like to post about such trivial things as this, But I find it harder and harder to keep quiet.
I am going to start out by saying I really respect what the devs do. Marcan has helped out an incredible amount to further the Wii scene. If he continues to do what he does, we will all be very indebted to him. (Not that we aren't already... I know I am!)
You, Brakken, continue to show the developers and the sceners respect. You don't HAVE to post news, but because you take the time out of your day, everyone on Tehskeen respects you. We all enjoy this website... if we didn't, we wouldn't be here. So I thank you for your efforts.
The only thing I see wrong with this is the fact that someone (Marcan in this example...sorry bro) posted a video that shows some pretty amazing stuff, but didn't feel the need to go into great detail about anything.
This only makes people speculate.
Realistically, if a developer doesn't want people to make assumptions, they should never make a video that far in advance, or they should explain in great detail after a video is made, if ONLY to stop good people like Brakken from being mislead.
Or they should NOT make a video in the first place... Keep it to yourself.
I just don't understand why the Wii scene is so secretive right now. I totally understand the fact that people can find their own exploits and do with them what they wish. But why make a video showing it off without explaining... Why deny people information and fun? Why not help more people take it to the next level?
I believe that the reason Wii homebrew has not been taken to the next level is simply because someone knows more information than they are sharing.
It's like people want their 15 minutes of fame, but they are in the wrong field if they wish to accomplish this.
Imagine if the devs shared all of the information they knew (good or bad). I guarantee it would encourage more people (like me) who are pretty intelligent and able to learn to try their hand in homebrew.
But because information is only handed out in little pieces, it makes the end users (I myself included) await some devine developer's product.
Why can't I help?
The funny thing is, ALL of these devs (maybe a couple excluded) HAD to start from someone teaching them. Not a SINGLE person was born with the knowledge to "hack" a system. Do you think they would have gotten as far as they did with someone witholding information? I think not...
It's actually sickening the fact that these devs were trained by someone else, who REALLY wanted people to understand what was going on. They didn't hold back. And now we have a few devs who REFUSE to train people, or even hand out source code for f*ck's sake. What is the point of it? Have you gotten rich, fame, or power from it?
No.
You have gotten people like me who used to REALLY respect the devs that are helping to further the scene, but are now wondering where it all went wrong.
Whatever happened to the XBOX devs?
I am sorry if I hit a nerve with some people/devs out there. I know you devs do what you do best. But be real with me...
I want ONE Dev to come in here and act like they were born with knowledge. I will show you a fool.
you looked at xbmc it keeps winning awards at sourceforge. XB devs are still way alive and kicking, if anything the softmod IMHO for the xbox launched the xbox into the next plateau of development. Just because people appear not to be playing the xbox does not mean they are all in a landfill somewhere.
I'm sorry, what information are you waiting for exactly?
They shared all the information needed to acces ALL of the wii's hardware,
The only thing they didn't share, is the information on how to make a virgin wii run backups, and most of us like it that way, and the truncha hack, witch isn't That usefull, for homebrew purpusses.
They shared how to do this "pandora battery", they just kept it quit so that the noobz don't start spammin about pandora battery's. There is no point to build this unless you have a specific bricking on a wii thats not patched(Starfall) before it bricked. and if that would happen they would probably give you its schematics.
Also, they helped quite a few devs, so i'm sure you never even asked for their help.
Do you even know how to code?
Last edited by azeazezar; 09-04-2008 at 02:24 PM..
I'm sorry, what information are you waiting for exactly?
How about some source code? Im sure people are getting tired of being told that source will be available when clearly it will not be. (Twilight hack, Homebrew Channel to name a few) Which I think are the BIG ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azeazezar
The only thing they didn't share, is the information on how to make a virgin wii run backups, and most of us like it that way, and the truncha hack, witch isn't That usefull, for homebrew purpusses.
I completely agree with you. If someone wants to boot backups, then buy a chip. It's not that hard. But for someone to HIDE that information is bogus. All of the devs we are talking about have drive chips anyways, and PROBABLY boot backups with it. Come on man... think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azeazezar
They shared how to do this "pandora battery", they just kept it quit so that the noobz don't start spammin about pandora battery's.
Show me how making a video on youtube is being quiet....
Quote:
Originally Posted by azeazezar
There is no point to build this unless you have a specific bricking on a wii thats not patched(Starfall) before it bricked. and if that would happen they would probably give you its schematics.
Thank you for some pertinent information...seriously. But it came from you instead of the developer which it should have.
And yes I can code decently. You don't have to worry about that.
I just think it's unfair to put these people in a pedestal because they know something the rest of the world doesn't. So what?
I am and end user who is decently adept with coding. I understand how source code is not always the first thing shared, but when is it going to be? Never?
How is that supposed to further the scene?
I mean NO disrespect to you, my friend, but this is getting out of hand.
Last edited by XMrNogatcoX; 09-04-2008 at 03:28 PM..
you looked at xbmc it keeps winning awards at sourceforge. XB devs are still way alive and kicking, if anything the softmod IMHO for the xbox launched the xbox into the next plateau of development. Just because people appear not to be playing the xbox does not mean they are all in a landfill somewhere.
You are exatcly right. I enjoy XBMC more than any other homebrew program for any system. And I agree about the softmod enabling a higher developement. Why can't we do something like this for the Wii? Because people are too afraid of "pirates".
I put quotations around "pirates" because i think it's funny how these people are all against pirates. I want to know the person who has NEVER downloaded a song, movie, or Ebook, or anything for that matter. How about saving pictures off of websites? Did they pay for it? Did all of these developers MAKE the coding for the Wii, or did they just reverse engineer someone else's (Nintendo's) work? Or how about buying a used game from Gamestop? Did the developers make more money, or did it just go in Gamestop's hands? How about buying books for college, and then selling them back at the end of the year. Did that person pay the DEVELOPERS of that book? HELL NO!!!!!!
The word "Pirate" is a joke!
Realistically, there is a little pirate in EVERYONE! I'm tired of these "God-like" non-pirates. I think half of them just come on websites to download sh*t and tell others not to.
Just because someone STEALS hidden coding from Nintendo and then re-writes it doesn't make them ANY better than the rest of us "normal people". That's like a hacker taking over a website just to show "Security is weak"
Last edited by XMrNogatcoX; 09-04-2008 at 03:30 PM..
How about some source code? Im sure people are getting tired of being told that source will be available when clearly it will not be. (Twilight hack, Homebrew Channel to name a few) Which I think are the BIG ones.
I agree with you , those should have been shared. But i can understand why they don't: To make sure people don't make 25 different versions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMrNogatcoX
I completely agree with you. If someone wants to boot backups, then buy a chip. It's not that hard. But for someone to HIDE that information is bogus. All of the devs we are talking about have drive chips anyways, and PROBABLY boot backups with it. Come on man... think about it.
If they didn't hide the information, ppl will use it to make a backup loading program. So i must say i agree with hiding it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMrNogatcoX
Show me how making a video on youtube is being quiet....
You only heard about it after a month, didn't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMrNogatcoX
Thank you for some pertinent information...seriously. But it came from you instead of the developer which it should have.
And yes I can code decently. You don't have to worry about that.
No problem, really
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMrNogatcoX
I just think it's unfair to put these people in a pedestal because they know something the rest of the world doesn't. So what?
Well, they are placed on that pedestal for what they did, not what they know. They did make the thilight hack and the homebrew channel after all, and some other stuff too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMrNogatcoX
I am and end user who is decently adept with coding. I understand how source code is not always the first thing shared, but when is it going to be? Never?
How is that supposed to further the scene?
I think they will share it when they think nothing can be added, or that they themself aren't gonna continue developing it.
We will find out in time.
Respect! i'm glad we posted about this, now ppl have stuff to think about
Last edited by azeazezar; 09-04-2008 at 03:32 PM..
One of the reason of why the source code have not been released, its easy to answer.
Let say Twilight hack come with a source, how do you think nintendo will do the next pacth ? just by looking at the source... Do we want that or do we want them to try finding by themself how to fix it? (they actually tried couple month ago by blocking some modified save file, but they failed cause the tweezer team were able to find a bug in their fix)
Homebrew channel actually connect to a specific server to download the lastest homebrew channel, if the code is release, how many homebrew channel we will have? everyone will want to create their own one or will try to just redirect the update to their own server just to get more visitor on it. Maybe you think that's a good thing, but I dont. If someone smart enought to put some kind of exploit in the homebrew channel and share it on their big wii newz website (and Brakken I'm not talking about this website), what kind of mess do you think we will have?
And for us, all the helper that try to help everyone getting start on homebrew channel, it's easy cause there is only one, so learn it and teach them, but if there was like 50 different one...
There is source that have to be released, and some that need to be kept secret, all because of the headack that we could have having them released.
I'm the creator of wiiship, and as a developper I will release some part of my code, but not the multiplayer part, why ? cause people will be able to screw up everything I worked on (Do I want that? no, does people want my source? yeah, am I gonna give it to them ? no).
One of the reason of why the source code have not been released, its easy to answer.
Let say Twilight hack come with a source, how do you think nintendo will do the next pacth ? just by looking at the source... Do we want that or do we want them to try finding by themself how to fix it? (they actually tried couple month ago by blocking some modified save file, but they failed cause the tweezer team were able to find a bug in their fix)
Homebrew channel actually connect to a specific server to download the lastest homebrew channel, if the code is release, how many homebrew channel we will have? everyone will want to create their own one or will try to just redirect the update to their own server just to get more visitor on it. Maybe you think that's a good thing, but I dont. If someone smart enought to put some kind of exploit in the homebrew channel and share it on their big wii newz website (and Brakken I'm not talking about this website), what kind of mess do you think we will have?
And for us, all the helper that try to help everyone getting start on homebrew channel, it's easy cause there is only one, so learn it and teach them, but if there was like 50 different one...
There is source that have to be released, and some that need to be kept secret, all because of the headack that we could have having them released.
I'm the creator of wiiship, and as a developper I will release some part of my code, but not the multiplayer part, why ? cause people will be able to screw up everything I worked on (Do I want that? no, does people want my source? yeah, am I gonna give it to them ? no).
Thats just my opinion, take it or ignore it.
I would have to say that you make some good points. It defenitely makes sense that we wouldn't want a bunch of homebrew servers around. That WOULD get messy. But to deny ANYone from doing it, now that's just not right.
Someone will ALWAYS find another exploit. The Twilight Hack isn't the only one, I guarantee it. I understand that Nintendo can block modified gamesaves, but they can't block them all. If we were at least privy to more information than "its a buffer overflow" MAYBE we could ALL get more prepared for Nintendo. Who's to say they aren't going to try to block the Twilight Hack again? Only this time I expect it is going to be harder to get around.
BUT... As soon as Nintendo comes out with another update, the devs are likely to reverse engineer it. I hardly think that by releasing even a little more information that Nintendo is going to be able to stop all attempts at Homebrew.
About keeping SOME source secret, I can see what you are saying. In fact, it's a really good point. But don't you think that if WE could reverse engineer Nintendo's code, than Nintendo could do the same to us?
I just wanted to thank you guys for not letting this discussion get to that next level (flaming). You guys are obviously very intelligent and I can respect differences of opinions. I appreciate your inputs.
About Nintendo patching the twilight hack for good:
The twiizers said that one shouldn't release new exploits, because that would only allow Nintendo to patch both at the same time.
If one waits till Nintendo fixes the first, and then releases the next one, Nintendo would have to debug their next patch for months (like with the first TP-hack-patch), meaning we would have a working exploit again for that period.
I think this would indeed be the best cource of action, and hope it works
About reverse engineering the twilight hack:
In japan, reverse engineering is in most cases considered copyright infringement. (correct me if I'm wrong, i just did a Really quick google)
Not sure if that would stop them, or even aplies for this case, its still worth considering.
Glad we can have an intelligent discussion here
Last edited by azeazezar; 09-04-2008 at 04:26 PM..
About Nintendo patching the twilight hack for good:
The twiizers said that one shouldn't release new exploits, because that would only allow Nintendo to patch both at the same time, If one waits till Nintendo fixes the first, and then releases the next one, Nintendo would have to debug their next patch for months (like with the first TP-hack-patch), meaning we would have a working exploit again for that period.
About reverse engineering the twilight hack:
In japan, reverse engineering is in most cases considered copyright infringement.(correct me if I'm wrong, i just did a Really quick google)
Not sure if that would stop them, or even aplies for this case, its still worth considering.
Glad we can have an intelligent discussion here
Does Team Twiizers hold a patent for the Twilight Hack? There is no way! How could they reverse engineer coding and then copyright it? They can't...
I would also expect that somewhere down the road, all games will have certain files that have to match up. IE... Epona's name in TP. They could take some values and record them or sign them (maybe?) and as soon as they are changed, the save will refuse to boot.
If that ISN'T going to happen, than what's the difference in building a database of exploits? Nintendo is NOT going to make an system update EVERY time another gamesave exploit is discovered. Even if they did, "normal" users of the Wii (those that don't use homebrew) would be agitated they have to update every time they turn on their Wii. Think of how much more responsibility and testing Nintendo would have to do at that point. They could NEVER keep up with us, unless they do the afformentioned technique, which I don't even know is possible.
Nintendo would NOT risk ruining everyone's Wii just because of a couple of hackers. They have to test each update VERY thouroughly (months at a time). Nintendo (The Cat) would never keep up with us (The Mice)
Last edited by XMrNogatcoX; 09-04-2008 at 04:41 PM..
Patents and copyright are 2 completely different things.
Read this for more information about that.
Also i don't think its possible for nintendo to code automatic savegame homebrew detection, but even if they do, there would be other ways to get homebrew running. No system has ever been unhackable, and none will be anytime soon.
[ QUOTE]Someone will ALWAYS find another exploit. The Twilight Hack isn't the only one, I guarantee it. I understand that Nintendo can block modified gamesaves, but they can't block them all. If we were at least privy to more information than "its a buffer overflow" MAYBE we could ALL get more prepared for Nintendo. Who's to say they aren't going to try to block the Twilight Hack again? Only this time I expect it is going to be harder to get around.
BUT... As soon as Nintendo comes out with another update, the devs are likely to reverse engineer it. I hardly think that by releasing even a little more information that Nintendo is going to be able to stop all attempts at Homebrew.[/quote]
I for one totally agree, what is the reason for not totally disclosing all methods and sources?
To protect Nintendo?
to protect the game developers?
to ensure homebrew is not disrupted?
Share The Wealth.
Let others learn from your endeavours.
Let the chips fall were they may; You never know YOU might learn something.
I love hardware hacking, cryptography and security circumnavigation.
Not sudoku!
Patents and copyright are 2 completely different things.
Read this for more information about that.
Also i don't think its possible for nintendo to code automatic savegame homebrew detection, but even if they do, there would be other ways to get homebrew running. No system has ever been unhackable, and none will be anytime soon.
My bad... I actually haven't gotten "above the clouds" today for lack of a better description I'll let you figure that one out.
But you know what I mean.... ass. haha only kidding bud.
That link was a good read though.
You, Brakken, continue to show the developers and the sceners respect. You don't HAVE to post news, but because you take the time out of your day, everyone on Tehskeen respects you. We all enjoy this website... if we didn't, we wouldn't be here. So I thank you for your efforts.
Thanks! It's nice sometimes to see users make respectful comments for the effort I put into the scene. I don't think I did anything wrong with this story. I think I'll address this situation once it unravels some more, probably in Blogcast #3.
Thanks! It's nice sometimes to see users make respectful comments for the effort I put into the scene. I don't think I did anything wrong with this story. I think I'll address this situation once it unravels some more, probably in Blogcast #3.
Nintendo Wii Recovery Dongle Exposed
would never keep up with us (The Mice)
I'll let you figure that one out.
Linear Mode
